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Difference between revisions of "Talk:Raid Boss"

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I've been getting 78, myself. -[[User:Rikki21|<span style="font-family:Script MT;color:#B452CD;font-size:4">'''Rikki'''</span>]][[User talk:Rikki21|<span style="color:#FF0066;font-size:4">'''21'''</span>]] 21:16, 22 June 2016 (PDT)
 
I've been getting 78, myself. -[[User:Rikki21|<span style="font-family:Script MT;color:#B452CD;font-size:4">'''Rikki'''</span>]][[User talk:Rikki21|<span style="color:#FF0066;font-size:4">'''21'''</span>]] 21:16, 22 June 2016 (PDT)
 
:::::Something brought up on reddit -- doing Mission 10 five times (70 enemies) summons a raid boss, at least for me and presumably the person who relayed that. Doing 5* Evolve Medals: Speed three times (100 enemies) does not. In fact, you have to play that mission four times to get a raid boss. The mission appears to matter (at least if played repeatedly), which means testing this further will be almost impossible.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] ([[User talk:KrytenKoro|talk]]) 06:52, 23 June 2016 (PDT)
 
:::::Something brought up on reddit -- doing Mission 10 five times (70 enemies) summons a raid boss, at least for me and presumably the person who relayed that. Doing 5* Evolve Medals: Speed three times (100 enemies) does not. In fact, you have to play that mission four times to get a raid boss. The mission appears to matter (at least if played repeatedly), which means testing this further will be almost impossible.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] ([[User talk:KrytenKoro|talk]]) 06:52, 23 June 2016 (PDT)
 +
::::::Actually, if you're only considering that variable, it's totally impossible . . . because even that isn't a constant. To exemplify, I completed 57 thrice, omitting a few enemies to land on a desired kill count, recorded the results, and repeated. I got nothing at 80, but success at 81 and 82. However, when I first went to 270 (straight to boss, so one kill) and then did three runs of 57 with some restraint, I got a raid at 80. Then, again starting with 270 (just 1), I ran 221 enough to have 81 kills and got nothing. There was still nothing at 85 and finally a raid at 89. As I said a bit ago, I'll be finalizing my results soon, but as a little preview, I see the following: Eggs count double. The value appears to depend on both the starting mission (first one that you go to after a raid) and the end (last one before a new raid spawns). The value trends toward the 70-80 range.

Revision as of 21:08, 23 June 2016

https://www.reddit.com/r/KingdomHearts/comments/4lr5yj/khux_omega_chance_seems_to_depend_on_some/

I'm not sure if all this fishing in muddy waters will get us anywhere, there are simply too many unknowns. The best chance to get behind this is probably trying to summon Raid Bosses outside of a party and see if there is a pattern.
By the way, are we sure it's exactly 80 Heartless you need to defeat to spawn a Raid Boss, in this thread it says its exactly 82. --ShardofTruth (talk) 13:23, 31 May 2016 (PDT)
It's definitely 82. 28-24-29, then cid mission.KrytenKoro (talk) 15:14, 31 May 2016 (PDT)

Since that has been debunked, further testing seems to indicate that the count just keeps going down . . . but also that there is more to it than that. I have defeated over 100 Heartless in a row with no raid at all, I have gotten one after 68, and even possibly after 67. If we want to take this seriously, we're going to need input from the devs.

There are definitely some missions that prevent you from summoning a Raid Boss -- mission 3, and the coliseum missions, for one. That could explain how you killed so many Heartless in a row. However, every other mission I've played, I get a raid boss at exactly when I would expect to with a killcount of 82.KrytenKoro (talk) 20:37, 16 June 2016 (PDT)
Mission 221 does not prevent raid bosses. It does, however, totally lack Omega Trickmasters, from the many, many tries that I have given it.

Do five instances of #10. You can even skip eggs and Pretenders if you want to make sure that the kill count stays down. At 70 kills, you'll get a raid boss. If not, enter #174, go right around everyone to the boss battle, and beat those 3. In any case, it will be sure to debunk this 82 mantra.72.172.203.139 11:13, 19 June 2016 (PDT)

Then it's a special case for those missions, but I've gotten a raid boss at exactly 82 for every other random combination of missions, whether I use 57, 10, or completely different missions.KrytenKoro (talk) 23:26, 19 June 2016 (PDT)
I currently have a team of more than ten users testing raid boss spawns, and none of them have reported having to go over 75 kills. We classically use the 57-57-10-X method; #57 * 2 = 56 kills, #10 is another 14, and going into any mission after those gives a raid boss. That's 70 + X, and it works on missions with just a few foes. Look, we can go back and forth citing hundreds of raids and hundreds of different experiences, but the fact is that, because there is a difference at all, we have to acknowledge that it's not just a simple matter of "Kill X enemies -> raid boss gogo." There is clearly more to it than that. It would be silly and deceptive of either of us to cling to one particular number as the sole determinant.

That brings me back to what I said before. We need to A) make a concerted effort to contact the devs and bug them to stop ignoring support requests and 2) make a concerted effort to run tests and discover what we can while we wait for them to tell us to shove off, anyway.72.172.203.139 11:03, 20 June 2016 (PDT)

I've done the 57*2+10, and it does not immediately summon a raid boss after doing the next mission unless that mission has around twelve enemies. I have consistently gotten 57*2 + 57- to let me summon on the next mission (57 with all 28 twice, then 57 with all but the last 4, for 28+28+24=80). If the 57+57+10 is working for your guys, then it's not universal -- 82 is definitely a set constant for my account, at least, and I've seen reports that that's the same for others. Maybe it's like Munny Missions, then, where it's a personal variable for the account. As far as your guys, I would ask them to try doing any other mission but 57+57+10, and record their results -- I'd be happy to record mine as well, but the "they have not reported it" is an iffy way to make that claim.
I'm fine with noting that the number of Heartless required varies from 82, but I'd ask for the priming to be more than just the same three missions over and over. But if you guys can definitely prove it true...then it throws most of the raid boss research y'all have been doing into murky waters, because the basic system clearly isn't shared between all players, and if I can get Omegas in sub-100 missions when you guys can't, that can't be waved off as a glitch.KrytenKoro (talk) 12:39, 20 June 2016 (PDT)
Okay, I guess that I should have made some things clearer. The 57-57-10-X method was developed a good while ago. I developed it, so I would know. It's a simple analysis of AP efficiency. Why go into 57 and kill all but 4 foes when you can go into 10 at half the cost and still get a raid spawn from almost any mission? An erroneous kill count of 75 was established before it, just as with your 82 count. Especially during free AP campaigns like this, though, differing paths have been tested, and values are absolutely everywhere, trending toward 75. 221 * 3 = 72. Take the last three of 224 to hit 75. 270 * 5, last enemy only, to hit 80 for an Omega Guard Armor. 221 * 3 + 1 egg = 73 for Trickmaster. I had written down many other results (Off the top of my head, one mission finished at 84, and I still had to play again, landing on 92, to get a spawn. Separately, I got a raid with less than 40 kills. Yes, less than 40. I was only running against Munny Eggs and Growth Eggs.), but my computer crashed, so I lost a ton of this. The point is that many, many prep routes have been taken, and most of them come up above or below 82. Also, there are a lot of us testing, so it's not like just a few people are miscounting, but also a lot of different results come from the same people. Those that I mentioned here and plenty of other different values are from my testing alone, never mind others' variances. Moving beyond priming disputes, this does nothing against the rest of our studies, which are showing that many missions have abysmal Omega rates, while others, which I have dubbed "Prime Omega" missions, have upwards of 40%. However anyone primes their raids, it'd be nice to get some volunteers to test individual missions. We just need ten raids of a mission that has not been tested in order to be confident enough in the findings. Meanwhile, I just need a few more other results to confirm some postulates that I have on the raid boss (any) spawn mechanic, and then I'll be submitting the results.72.172.203.139 20:29, 23 June 2016 (PDT)

On another note, are we just ignoring Savage/Venomous Spider? Just pretending that it doesn't exist? :/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.172.203.139 (talkcontribs)

This page is missing the Spider Raid boss gotten from the adamantite missions. -—Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.197.134.227 (talkcontribs)

Thanks for pointing it out, but you guys don't need to afraid to edit the actual page to add these yourself. -Rikki21 18:40, 16 June 2016 (PDT)
I was too lazy for that. -—Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.197.134.227 (talkcontribs)

Non-Heartless enemies

Do Cloud, Cerberus, or Hades count towards Raid Boss summoning?KrytenKoro (talk) 13:21, 21 June 2016 (PDT)

I did managed to summon one from Cloud's quest but there are also heartless there so I'm not sure if he'll be counting.--Xabryn (talk) 14:21, 21 June 2016 (PDT)

We need to try priming it with the 57-57-57^, then fighting only Cloud and Hades and seeing if it goes off. If so, we need to revise the wiki from saying "82 Heartless" to "82 enemies". We also need to test the assertion that you can get it with less than 82 Heartless.KrytenKoro (talk) 14:56, 21 June 2016 (PDT)
I tested both, I did 57-57-57 (minus the last 4 enemies in the lighthouse) then defeated only Cloud and summoned a Venomous Spider so Cloud definitly counts, as for the number of enemies I defeated 27-27-23-1 and still summoned a Raid boss.--Xabryn (talk) 15:17, 21 June 2016 (PDT)
Also I believe the number of enemies you need to defeat is 78, could someone check?--Xabryn (talk) 18:34, 21 June 2016 (PDT)
I just now got 82 doing the Keyblade Materials mission over...and over and over and over. This looks to be confirmed as individual values, like munny mission. Perhaps those are actually tied together?KrytenKoro (talk) 19:21, 21 June 2016 (PDT)
TSH got 84 doing the same thing, so yeah. The 57-57-10 strategy definitely only works for --certain-- players, and we need to encourage people to find their own value.KrytenKoro (talk) 05:59, 22 June 2016 (PDT)

I've been getting 78, myself. -Rikki21 21:16, 22 June 2016 (PDT)

Something brought up on reddit -- doing Mission 10 five times (70 enemies) summons a raid boss, at least for me and presumably the person who relayed that. Doing 5* Evolve Medals: Speed three times (100 enemies) does not. In fact, you have to play that mission four times to get a raid boss. The mission appears to matter (at least if played repeatedly), which means testing this further will be almost impossible.KrytenKoro (talk) 06:52, 23 June 2016 (PDT)
Actually, if you're only considering that variable, it's totally impossible . . . because even that isn't a constant. To exemplify, I completed 57 thrice, omitting a few enemies to land on a desired kill count, recorded the results, and repeated. I got nothing at 80, but success at 81 and 82. However, when I first went to 270 (straight to boss, so one kill) and then did three runs of 57 with some restraint, I got a raid at 80. Then, again starting with 270 (just 1), I ran 221 enough to have 81 kills and got nothing. There was still nothing at 85 and finally a raid at 89. As I said a bit ago, I'll be finalizing my results soon, but as a little preview, I see the following: Eggs count double. The value appears to depend on both the starting mission (first one that you go to after a raid) and the end (last one before a new raid spawns). The value trends toward the 70-80 range.